Posts by Anders Andersen

Since forever I am very curious about everything (those who know me personally also know I will check facts about the weirdest things during a conversation), but some topics were off limits.... Now they are not.

I love it that I can discuss any topic with people who either think the same or something else as I do.

Some know a lot more or a lot less on certain topics.

And I drink it all in to expand my knowledge.

I strongly believe that understanding what other people believe and know if beneficial for me and my relations with others.

And in the process I notice I am losing my inner Witness who knows he has The Truth...I become more humble and open to multiple interpretations.

I don't need to be right anymore...(as long as I'm not wrong ;-) )

17

God & universe #1 - God's position and authority

by Anders Andersen in

while thinking about the nature of god, i suddenly thought of something else: how jw speak about god in relation to the universe.. they say that.

jehovah created the universe.

destroying satan and answering the questions that were raised in eden will restore peace and unity in the whole universe.. .

Anders Andersen

Many interesting points here, thanks for all your detailed responses.

Each day I learn more and more that I really don't know anything about religion :-p

The more I think about it, the God as a spiritual person living in a spiritual place really doesn't make sense (even less than gods in general ;-) )

And every day I am still surprised that I thought JW religion were TRUTH and infinitely better than other religions. JW beliefs were deep and detailed as opposed to childish superstitions of others.

Boy was I wrong.... :-D

17

God & universe #1 - God's position and authority

by Anders Andersen in

while thinking about the nature of god, i suddenly thought of something else: how jw speak about god in relation to the universe.. they say that.

jehovah created the universe.

destroying satan and answering the questions that were raised in eden will restore peace and unity in the whole universe.. .

Anders Andersen

While thinking about the nature of God, I suddenly thought of something else: How JW speak about God in relation to the universe.

They say that

Jehovah created the universe
Jehovah is the highest authority /sovereign in the universe
destroying Satan and answering the questions that were raised in Eden will restore peace and unity in the whole universe.

Obviously if Jehovah created the universe, He must reside outside the universe himself.

Which leads me to the following questions:

Why are statements like 2 and 3 above always worded (in JW literature) with regards to our universe only?

Maybe God created more than one universe?

Or at least shouldn't it be acknowledged that Jehovah is the highest authority in our universe, and outside of it? That he will restore peace and unity everywhere, not just in our universe?

Now the statements seem to sort of decrease Jehovah's glory?....like ants living in a pot talking about how the Potter is the greatest authority in their pot....ignoring the beauty of all other pots and the authority the Potter has there.

Are JW statements about this in line with Biblical ideas?

I am curious about how you are looking at this.

FYI 1 a second topic about God's non-physical nature will follow, so please restrict yourself to the topic of JW and God's glory and authority in/out our universe.

FYI 2 I only did a quick search for Jehovah and universe on wol. There may be statements I have missed...

20

Article: "JWs door to door pamphlets are actually alright." Journalist's mistakes corrected in Comments by XJWs. Read his reaction.

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

https://www.the-newshub.com/general/jehovahs-witness-door-to-door-pamphlets-are-actually-alright#comment-section.

jehovah's witness door to door pamphlets are actually alright.

and their religion isn't that bad either.

Anders Andersen

Saw the article, wanted to comment, but then I needed to signup. Just ignored it.

Glad someone did comment :-)

3

Quiz - What do all of these jw.org WT Online Library references have in common?

by Esse quam videri in

watchtower online library.

sexual abuse.

after effects: g93 7/22 6-7; g93 10/8 4; g91 10/8 3-10. alleged abuser: w95 11/1 27-29. ancient times: g93 10/8 3. appreciation for awake!

Anders Andersen

Probably not what you mean, but they are all pre-2000 so you can't read the articles on wol.JW.com.....

(Is that short for WeOnlyLie.JustWait.OrganizedRobberyGroup?)

54

Things JW's and Atheists have in common

by juandefiero in

i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.

to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.

i realized, atheists believe these things too!.

Anders Andersen

@DJ, Thanks for the explanation.

I already assumed my views are quite limited by my JW upbringing and the information 'management' that comes with it. Unfortunately the J-C God seems harder to argue against than the JW God.

@Cofty, don't worry, I'm still a materialistic atheist ;-)

Like you I am convinced they process of how chemicals reacted and combined into something that we now classify as 'life' will be discovered someday.

@prologos, I was planning on starting a thread about JW God in/out of time and universe anyway. Maybe we should continue there when I do (but I am fine here too :-) )

And it's my understanding as well that the emptyness of the big nothing is likely to be oozing with energy fluctuations, and that the universe possibly sprang from those fluctuations. Apparently net energy in/of our universe = 0.

54

Things JW's and Atheists have in common

by juandefiero in

i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.

to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.

i realized, atheists believe these things too!.

Anders Andersen

@prologos,

Thanks for playing ball in a nice and polite way. I like it :-)

I consider the attempts to replicate abiogenesis crucial, but in MHO success would only prove there needs to be an agent to do it, no matter how remote the "operator"

They are crucial indeed. But scientists are not really trying to create the process of abiogenesis; that process already exists ;-)

What they are doing (according to my understanding) is trying to recreate the circumstances that (as evidence tells us) may have existed during our earth's long history, and see if this process occurs (or can occur) in these circumstances.

If they succeed, it is proven that given a specific set of circumstances organic life can 'spontaneously' start.

The role of a creator is then reduced to setting the correct circumstances and waiting for organic life to arise (as opposed to breathing life into matter to create life similar to the story of Adam)

All that their intelligence is used for is creating the circumstances in which life could start, but they are not creating life itself.

I agree with your statement that a creator is not bound by the laws of physics that govern our universe.

And maybe my views are still to narrowly based on my quite recent (5 months) JW mindset, but in my mind any proposed creator is at least somewhat a person: thinking, having a personality, coming up with the idea to start creating universe(s).

And the process of thinking is (even if we accept that it could take place without the existence of time) governed by some rules/laws.

Like the laws of physics in our universe make it possible for structured processes to exist, some laws must govern any structured process (like spiritual living and thinking, creating) or these processes would be impossible....

Accepting that this creator is not a person makes the whole discussion about a creator's (non-)existence a pointless one: some then choose to label the eternal origins of nature 'God', but they mean the same thing/process/entity as those not applying that same label.

So while we seem to agree that there is no difficulty in accepting that there is no beginning of 'everything' because it 'started' with an 'eternal something' (Creator in your case, whatever caused our universe in my case), I am still puzzled about how you view life and 'god'.

If god isn't alive and still created life....doesn't that mean life basically self-started anyway?

As you can see there's a lot I still want to learn about this. Please enlighten me :-)

54

Things JW's and Atheists have in common

by juandefiero in

i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.

to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.

i realized, atheists believe these things too!.

Anders Andersen

@prologos,

scientists are looking for explanations

Fair enough. You didn't seem to make the distinction between atheists and scientists so I didn't bother either.

I agree (and that was somewhat my point in my first reply to this topic) that JW processes tend to superficially mimic scientific processes. The big difference being that 1) JW invent a conclusion and then look for twisted ways to support it, where scientists study evidence and draw a conclusion afterwards, and 2) in science normally the conclusion is changed when new evidence is discovered, whereas JW can change their doctrine 180 degrees and have both positions supported by the same 'evidence'.

it has never been demonstrated, that the Universe created itself or that life arose spontaneously. Efforts to replicate he latter have failed so far, and examining the energy level of the former even on the smallest scale took great effort and ingenuity.

If the demonstration of something is needed to verify it's factual correctness or possibility, please provide some demonstration of the following:

1) a god popping into existence

2) a god being alive and acting

3) divine creation

Anyway, you missed my point about self-started life completely. Please pick one of the below positions that you can accept, or state something yourself.

God=life. God=eternal or self-started. Thus life=eternal or self-started.
There is no Creator. Thus life=eternal or self-started.
...

In my view, regardless of one's convictions, the conclusion is always that life self-started.

Just because many people choose to put label 'God' on the big unknown how/where life self-started, doesn't make it less self-started.

So to me it's strange that one could use 'life could never have self-started' as an argument against the other position.

107

Stephen Lett at our assembly today

by StarTrekAngel in

he delivered the most cultic piece of propaganda i've ever seen in an assembly.

wife typed up the whole thing.

i will be posting when i get a chance.

Anders Andersen

@BrandNew,

Spilling perfectly good beer is an instant DFing offense in my world....